11.04.2011

q+a: guilt trip win

You're right, I'm a lazy blogger and I don't keep my promises. So here's a q+a post that I owe you. But first off, I want to thank Angela and Sabrina's Mom for sending me the amazing care packages!! Letters coming your ways soon, but for now just know there's one less hungry college kid out there.

Q: Were you Teddy Roosevelt or Black Swan for Halloween?
A: I went with Black Swan. Which I haven't actually seen. Basically, it was a way to use this black tutu that I have major buyer's remorse about purchasing. Also, I don't have a great track record with historical cross dressing; I had to do Michelangelo and Beaumarchais at various times in elementary school. Never, never again.

For the record, I take Halloween very seriously. As in I trick or treat, and because I feel a little bit bad about taking other people's candy as a teenager, I at least put some effort in it. Last year was all about the elf ears. And just for your entertainment, sophomore year was...I don't even know what.



Q: Is there something you struggled with as a child? I'm sure even tiger children have their insecurities.
A: Yes. Weight. I'm roughly the same weight today as I was in all of middle school, except 5 inches taller. Shopping sucked ("Do you have this in a large? She has a bit of a belly"), so there were a lot of sweatshirts and baggy pants involved (on the bright side: it got me into Nirvana), which meant I had to hate everything girly, which meant I couldn't engage in conversations about Britney Spears, which meant I spent a lot of time by myself playing Age of Mythology. Actually, in the scheme of things, maybe that's not so bad. I could have been doing a lot of worse things in middle school, like playing the drums.

Q: What do you miss most about home?
A: My dogs. So much. But whenever I visit home, they wag their tails for about three seconds and then ignore me...talk about a one-sided relationship. Also Szechuan food, fresh fruit (seriously, you'd think the second richest institution in the world could afford fruit salad or, you know, pay their workers a decent wage...oh wait I forgot, they spent all their money buying themselves a 4,000,000 pound red velvet birthday cake or whatever), lazing around in my parents' room, waking up freezing cold and then running downstairs with three sweaters on to eat cereal with Lulu, getting the New York Times delivered, doing the crossword with Lulu, jogging in my neighborhood, the way my neighborhood smells in the fall, giant bath towels, driving the Wrangler.

Q: Did you play any sports in high school? Will not playing sports put me at a disadvantage when applying to college?
A: Okay, multiple part answer. First, answer: yes, I was on the tennis team through junior year, and as a senior I ran track instead. (Slowly.) Next, disclaimer: not only am I not a college selection process guru, I pretty much have no freaking idea how they choose people here at all. Well, some things are pretty obvious. Having your name on a building helps. Or having famous and interesting parents, I mean that's probably why I'm here, isn't it. Finally, conjecture: again, I don't know anything for sure. But from common sense, I'd say that unless you are good enough to be recruited, the college doesn't need you for your athletic ability. If anything, playing sports is just one of many ways to show you are well-rounded or multi-faceted or whatever the polite term du jour is for "not a potential serial killer who likes lab mice more than people." Also, from looking around me, I can assure you that there are many, MANY people accepted into fine institutions who have never touched a sneaker in their life. You will be fine.

P.S. The horse lives :)

Leave more questions! Thanks for reading. I'm working on more frequent posting, so just let me know what you want to hear about!

84 comments:

  1. Can you blog about your favorite foods????

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  2. This post was the perfect Friday afternoon post-midterm present! You're right, we have been guilt tripping you to post more often-- but I can't say I feel particularly bad about it if it worked :)

    I'm glad you finally addressed people's questions about getting into college, and even more glad that you were chill about it and didn't give us your SAT scores or anything like that. However, could you maybe stop hinting that you're only at Harvard because of your parents? I have no doubt that your application received quite a "boost" this winter because of your mom's book, but come on, you were still an incredibly accomplished high-schooler to begin with. Sure, none of us know exactly how they choose people, but you were definitely in the upper tier from which Harvard selects its students. I'm sure you're trying to be graciously self-deprecating, but it sort of comes off as fishing for validation (oh wait, I just gave it to you in the last sentence). And now I'm guilt-tripping you again, so I'll stop-- but you too, 'kay? :)

    I LOVE your black swan makeup, and a tutu is basically all I want for Christmas. Question: How do you make the over-the-shoulder, not-actually-smiling pose work? I totally wish I could do it without looking like I'm simultaneously going into a coma and working out a neck kink. Actual question: If you could relive any one day from your life so far, which one would you choose?

    I hope the fall weather is beautiful in Boston right now! Thanks for the Q&A!

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  3. Girl, how do you manage to fit everything in? Please share your time management strategies with us. A boring question I know, but I'd love to hear your response.

    #whyamisoltd #nevermind #lovekurt

    I think you're a real sweatpea! Speculating now: I'm seeing you becoming some sort of international relations advisor, jetting around the Middle East perhaps - a fixer! Hope you take a philosophy class. I think you'd enjoy metaphysics (mind bendy adventures par excellence)or political philosophy or aesthetics or - OK I'll stop now (yep, philosophy is my thing).

    Thanks for sharing!

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  4. You don't really have to keep up with blogging.....If I were you, I'd probably forget all about it. Besides, your in college! I don't even know how you find time to write a post like that or upload pictures! (Unless you type like, over 100 WPM)

    I have a question: I heard on the radio that some Harvard students protested against something....inequality or the such. Do you have any friends that participated?

    Your awesome! I love this blog!

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  5. I secretly want to be as successful as you, Sophia.

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  6. Hey it's Tiffany, I wrote you a letter...
    I'm just wondering in college do you have time to do twitter, blogging, etc? You update your twitter a lot, so I'm guessing you have free periods? Also, pictures of Harvard and your classrooms would be SOOOO COOL. It'd be amazing. I always love your pictures, it gives a personal feeling to your blogs!!

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  7. Are there a lot of piano players like you at Harvard?
    How many people are there per class?
    Are you super stressed out or is it just a continuation of high school?
    Does everyone there have one special talent (like you play piano)?
    Do you speak other languages besides English and Chinese?
    Did you take Chinese during high school?
    I LOVE YOU SOPHIA.

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  8. I'm loving your latest post and pics. Amazed how down to earth you are being that you have such famous parents. Any idea what you want to major in?

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  9. I would LOVE to hear more about your social life!! Have you been to any parties or are you not really into that sort of thing? How do you deal with the swarms of guys who probably hit on you? What are your favorite parts of Boston that you have explored or do you mainly stay in the Cambridge area? Have you found a job or are you not interested in one right now?

    I think many college students blog several times a week actually.. and I don't think it's a waste of time since it's not only good writing practice, but you have so many fans and you're leaving behind great memories that you can revisit with fondness later on.

    Also, I think Anthropology would be a great major!! Or Political Science. I am double majoring in those two so I'm kind of biased ;) But you're right, you have plenty of time to decide so I'm glad you are exploring a variety of different fields and classes!!

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  10. i think this idea of "hacking your education" is really enlightening/important..
    http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/how-students-can-take-charge-of-their-education/?ref=education

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  11. ^^even though your mom would probably disagree..

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  12. What are your plans for winter break?? are you doing anything/going anywhere exciting? :D

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  13. love the pics!
    hahaha "one-sided relationship" :P
    Wow, it's hard to believe you struggled with weight! You look really good right now!
    I know you're really busy, but can we be expecting a vlog sometime soon??? hehehe

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  14. Seems like you are having a lot of fun :).
    Blue Montoya

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  15. I really like your writing! One thing I have to add: You should tell us more about your classes. And Harvard in general. I want to go there, but I absolutely hate big buildings, partly because I'm an environment freak, but also because I get lost….very, very easily.

    Keep it up! =)

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  16. I second "Anonymous #04894386904352". I want to know about Harvard!
    Also, if Lulu could write something on your blog or create her own (or even twitter or something), that would be cool.
    :)

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  17. I second Debby. How cool would it be if lulu did a guest blog? Or even better, a vlog of the two of you? I know you're busy at Harvard, though. Just some wishful thinking.

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  18. How are you and your sister alike/different? Let's hear about your boyfriend and do you have any dating advice?

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  19. wow, I am always impressed by how personal some of the questions in the comments are. Anyway, you chose well and answered well! and i love the costumes...

    Anyway, I am sure Lulu has reasons why she doesn't make a blog or something, but making a guest blog appearance on yours might appeal to her? I would love that, too (affirming the pple further up).

    as for what I wanna hear about: I would love to hear about a typical day of yours - a question you could nicely combine with answering that question concerning your time-management. do you have the same classes everyday? when do you get up? do you eat in a cafeteria or cook with your room mates, etc.

    I have moved 700 km south to go to University and my list of "what I miss most" would read very similiar to yours. our dog (relationship also very much one-sided), mom's food, chilling out with my sisters, fresh fruit ...

    I wish you all the best and keep enjoying college!

    Love from Freiburg !

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  20. * i meant shocked, not impressed. ... sorry.

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  21. Hey Sophia!!!!!!
    I know you've probably heard this a million times, but you are INCREDIBLE!! :D
    I'm asian too, so getting into a good college is very, VERY important to both me and my family. I do want to make 'em proud... :)
    Anyway, I love your blog! I check it everyday and read every single word in your posts!! (Yes, I am upsessed, but your blog is sooooo interesting and fun!!)
    I don't want to overwhelm you with your homework and blog work, but I'm in my high school freshmen year, and it's exciting and overwhelming at the same time. ( I mean, there are freshmen who are taking 5 AP classes, and I'm taking none! :(
    I just wanted to hear from you about your high school life!! How did you exceed from your peers? How did you become valedictorian? How many APs did you take? I would love to hear from you about your most memorable memories in high school too!!! :)

    P.S. Thanks for your advice! I put it on my locker!!

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  22. Hi Sophia! You've travelled a fair amount. What place(s) left the best/worst/strangest impression on you, and why? xx

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  23. Interested in hearing about your thoughts on private school education & how that's shaped you. Also curious how you developed your writing style

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  24. ^Ditto to the request about private school education. And related to that, what it was like growing up with academics for parents in a university town. I feel like that would create a really interesting, expansive worldview, though I'm just speculating of course.

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  25. I'd like to hear more about your courses at Harvard. I actually watch the occasional online Yale Open Courses lecture. I went to a decent, respectable college, but nothing like Harvard, so I'm interested in the intensity of the learning atmosphere there. Based on your description of your courses, it seems like Harvard doesn't just offer the basic, introductory freshmen/sophomore courses like a lot of places---skip general World History or basic Art Appreciation---let's delves into French Sculpture of a specific time period. Do you think that that is because the students there are so well prepared academically that they don't really need those basic survey courses (that bog done the schedule of most Freshmen and Sophomores)? So it's best to just study a narrower, more specialized area for a semester---a deep, but not wide study.

    Also, let us know if you are fitting piano lessons and practice into your busy schedule. I'm sure there are many fine teachers there who would love to teach you, even if you are not a music major and can't devote four or more hours every day to studying right now.

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  26. I did a little thingo on you on my blog (crazy fan girl post) , I'm truly in AWE OF YOU! :'D

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  27. Hey it would be awesome if you could share your study tips and how you manage your time. Also, how do you get into a top rated private high school?

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  28. Here's a question: Have you heard of Mary Oliver's The Summer Day? What's your answer to her question?

    Where do you see yourself in ten years?

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  29. I really wish I am just as amazing as you are! I lowkey *HIGHKEY* admire you, Sophia! Wish you the best!

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  30. oh my gosh, yess please do a vlog!!! (with or without your sister, either is fine!)
    I admire your speaking (I watched your graduation speech and interview) just as much as your writing, and it'd be nice to be able to hear your voice and see your face at the same time :)

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  31. Sophia,
    Thanks for sharing about what you have struggled with. That encourages me. You rock!

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  32. Would you have the time to edit my college essays?
    That'd be really awesome! :)

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  33. How in the world do you become VALEDICTORIAN?
    please, Please, and PLEASE give me some advice on how to become VALEDICTORIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  34. Wow!!! I just came across this. This is a super self-indulgent, self-involved blog, whoa!!!! The whole self-congratulatory atmosphere is kinda icky if u ask me. But then again, narcissism is totally in these days.

    HAHAHA

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  35. I third Debby. I'd love to hear from/about Lulu!

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  36. @ Tom, I hope your comment will be deleted as it is inappropriate, inaccurate, and mean-spirited. I do not at all agree with your opinion and you should leave this girl alone. I don't think cruelty/putting others down with unhelpful, inaccurate judgments should be totally in these days either.

    Beyond Tom's icky comment, I'd love to hear more about your piano studies---are you taking lessons at Harvard or the nearby Boston Conservatory? I'm an amateur pianist and love learning tips from the pros!

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  37. can you please do a vlog over thanksgiving break?? we'd love to hear from you again soon! :)

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  38. Hello! Just wanted to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving break from a fan. I read your blog a lot, but don't really ask questions. I'd love to know what's going on with you - but either way, have a great break!!

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  39. I think it's so great that you went to the yale athletics leadership ball (speaking of which, i noticed you don't tweet as much anymore *sad face*)!! i'd love to see photos of you all dressed up, that must have been fun! :D

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  40. Why did you choose Harvard over Yale? Is it because you already lived in New Haven and your parents both work at Yale and you wanted something new?

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  41. tell us about the esl class you teach!

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  42. Yo, Tigress, where's our Thanksgiving update?
    I guess another question won't hurt: What lazy activity do you miss the most? (I guess mine would be laundry, and reading next to my tree with a dozen apples by my side)
    Peace,

    becks

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  43. Hey,

    I'm going to be in 9th grade next year, and I was wondering if you had any advice on course selection, or if you can share some courses in high school you enjoyed/regretted?

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  44. Do you go to the gym (use the treadmill) or run around the area...or both?

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  45. I know several "tiger moms." Their kids are either the non-social, deligently studious type, or they are talkative and exciting to be around with, while still maintaining "Chinese values." I noticed that you're more of the latter type. Do you have any idea what causes this pattern? Does it have to do with the parenting?
    Thank you!

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  46. I love reading your blog! :) I'm a freshman in college too and it's so cool reading your posts about Harvard life and being a "tiger" daughter. I'm Chinese as well so I can totally relate haha. Keep posting!! :)

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  47. Hey Sophia!

    I fourth/fifth it to hear about Lulu. What's she up to these days? Is she still playing the violin? I read your mom's book and at the end, it seemed like she toned down a little. What was it like after that?

    Another question I just thought of: How much or do you at all keep in touch with Chinese culture? Do you have a Chinese name? (I'm 3/4ths Asian, not that you probably care haha)

    Thanks, Rebecca

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  48. Hi Sophia!

    You're such an inspiring person, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise :) You've such a great sense of humor! I was just wondering if you could share some studying tips? Like how to study smart or more efficiently? I know it's different for everyone so...just wondering!! Good luck in college! Hope you're having fun.

    Best,
    Emily

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  49. Hey,

    Just Wondering if you are replying all the mails we sent!!! :) Have a good week!

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  50. Do you still play piano? I read your mom's book and know she laid back off violin. But how far did you end up going with the piano?

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  51. Hi Sophia!

    I love your blog so much! But... do you still play piano in Harvard?
    And when comes the next entry? ^-^

    Best

    Anna

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  52. Please do a post on Asian pop/your favorite bands! :)

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  53. http://abovethelaw.com/2006/10/law-school-dean-hotties-your-male-nominees/
    ahahaha have you seen this? Your dad is apparently a law school hottie hahahahahaha.

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  54. hahahaha I bet you're one of the celebs who inspired 2011's most popular baby girl name:
    http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/02/celebs-inspire-2011s-most-least-popular-baby-names/

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  55. heyy!! what happened to your twitter? :(

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  56. have to echo what anonymous said up there but - did you delete your twitter? I loved all your hashtag punchlines and general wittyness!!! Perhaps this is a holiday season pledge to spend less time with your fans... or a hacker's doing? Did you criticise an MIT's cage building skills?

    Once I find appropriately dorky Aussie stationery I'll write you a proper note. Sorry if I offended you with any unAmerican spelled words! Blame the Pacific Ocean and UK colonisation. :)

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  57. Hey! There was an recent article that said Asians are less likely to check the "Asian" box when applying for colleges due to discrimination. Some half-Asians/half-Whites applicants only indicated their White ethnicity. What are your thoughts on that, and if I may ask, how did you answer that question when applying to colleges?

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  58. Why did you take down your twitter?

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  59. Judging by your last tweet, I feel like you probably didn't have complexes or insecurity about the way you were brought up until the hype surrounding your mother's book created them #irony. If the comments of ignorant people upset you, maybe you should try ignoring them instead of hunting them down and reading them all? (on a slightly related note, i recently attended an enjoyable Q&A with Anne-Marie Slaughter...) I'm sure the whole thing was painful for you, and I don't want to discredit that, but isn't it better to rise above the situation than to keep responding to it with snarkiness? Though I have no doubt that you are quite intelligent in many different ways, your response to Slaughter didn't prove that you could think for yourself in a level-headed, objective way-- only in an impassioned, reactionary one.

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  60. But, re above, isn't the lovely sophia simply being protective of her mother? #irony

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  61. Hi Sophia! U have an amazing life. Pleade, please, please, tell me how your days and weeks look like, I mean, when u still was at school. Because look like ur days has more than 24h? U spent a lot of Time to play piano, but u still get A on everything at school, and u also seems to have fun! Where do u find time? How do u organize all that?Give us some tips to be perfect like that in so many fields! Thks!!

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  62. Chris from TorontoDecember 9, 2011 at 7:19 AM

    Thank you very much for the Twitter post where you recommended the film The Secret in Their Eyes! There is no way I would have otherwise come across this superb movie. I really enjoyed it. Any other movie recommendations?

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  63. Hey, I was wondering as a fellow half-Jew, what is your opinion on Zionism and the State of Israel? Personally, I feel that Israel is unfair to the Palestinians living there, yet I feel bad for the Israelis who don't really have anywhere else to go.

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  64. Can you please please please post again soon? Your last post was over a month ago and I love reading your blog! :) Pretty please with a cherry on top?

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  65. What clubs were you a part of in high school? in college?

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  66. Girlll...did you die or something?
    (1) You haven't updated the blog since, like, FOREVER!
    (2) Your twitter status: GONE!
    (3) Absolutely no warning that this was going to happen!
    SOPHIA!!!!! We're worried about you! If ya don't want to blog anymore, tell us!
    I'm sad :'(
    Bottom line--TALK TO US!
    Thanks for reading!
    -K in N.M.

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  67. It's exam time at Harvard, let the cub study. :)

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  68. Plz update this blog immediately~~~

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  69. @gck: Yeah, let the tiger cub study, but to Sophia: we want more updates plz!! ^__^

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  70. Just finished my finals.
    Sop more updates please ! (after finals ofc :) I can't live without your writing * if that can make you blog more*)

    A few questions I want to know:
    How are you gonna spend your X'mas?
    Any clubs in Harvard that you want to talk about ?
    What events that you attended?
    What's the plan for 2012?

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  71. SOPHIA STILL TWEETS!
    :D
    She just changed her name to SophiaCaribou!!
    It's a Hanukkah miracle!!

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  72. Why did you change your twitter?
    Did you change your blog, too?

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  73. It's great to see you update this blog. I always enjoy reading ur blog.

    If possible, can u pls post up ur personal essay that u used to apply on CommonApp last year as a Xmas present? XD

    Thanxx
    Merry Xmas!!

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  74. Do you think that admission to a private school (high school) will get one into a private college (like liberal arts)?

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  75. You have time to tweet, you have time to blog.

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  76. Hey Sophia!

    Keep on Rockin!

    -Chinese-American couple now with a MD and MD/PhD who grew up with tiger parents and love them dearly

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  77. Yeah...I have a question.
    How ghetto is New Haven?
    I DRINK THE BLOOD FROM YOUR BLOG, SOPHIA!!!
    PLEASE UPDATE!!! I'M ABOUT TO DIE FROM DEHYDRATION!!!
    A little dramatic there, but it would rock my week if you could update at least twice in Jan 2012!

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  78. the only thing i wanted for christmas was a blog post... :(

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  79. As someone who has read your mom’s book, the first WSJ article, as well as your mom’s latest WSJ essay, I would like to point out a few things… “As the eldest daughter of Chinese immigrants, I don’t have time to improvise or make up my own rules…I like clear goals, and clear ways of measuring success.” (Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother) I don’t know… sounds very much like the OPPOSITE of innovation and creativity to me.
    “In fact, both [Mr. Jobs and Mr. Zuckerberg] exemplify extraordinary hard work, drive and resilience in the face of failure—exactly the qualities that tiger parenting seeks to promote.” (WSJ essay) Which CONTRASTS with how she writes in her book that tiger parenting doesn’t even tolerate the possibility of failure.

    Your mom seems reasonable in interviews and her most recent Wall Street Journal publication, but I can’t help thinking that it’s all a façade. Even in the book, there are so many times when she’s saying one thing but thinking the totally opposite thing in her head. In front of Florence, music teachers, etc. it seems like she’s the definition of a hypocrite. Even to you and Lulu, she lies more than half the time, resorts to “espionage” and “guerilla warfare”, and is simply manipulative. I definitely agree with you and your mom that instilling discipline in children at a young age is the key to success, but I feel that equally important or even more important are instilling the values of honesty and adherence to moral principles. I have respected you for standing your ground about certain things, but if you seriously defend EVERYTHING that your mom does or says just because she is your mom, I respect you less for that. Your mom compromises honesty and a sense of values and morals for the sake of success (which your mom says in her book is characterized by playing the piano and/or violin, attending an Ivy League, and becoming lawyers or doctors, which shows just how shallow your mother really is). Can’t success entail working hard, making great achievements, and being innovative in a field that you are passionate about, whatever that field happens to be?

    I am also disturbed by how she claims that everything she does is for you and Lulu 100%. Yet, it really does seem as though she is way too obsessed with the spotlight and using you to look good in front of others. She says in the book, “I would have said modestly, ‘Oh’ they’re really not that good,’ hoping desperately that she’d ask me more so I could tell her about Sophia’s and Lulu’s latest music accomplishments.” She says similar things often throughout the book and seems to be rather insane in her obsession with bragging. I mean, if everything is really for you 100%, she shouldn’t feel this obsessive need to brag; it should be enough for your mom in and of itself that your achievements make you happy. Of course, every parent wants their child to make them proud but your mom seems to be looking way too much for validation from others, which demonstrates just how greedy and desperate for attention she is.

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  80. out of all the places you have traveled to with your family, which has been your favorite thus far and why?

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  81. whatever happened to working on more frequent posting? :( :( also, how did making your first dinner ever turn out? :D

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  82. Hi Sophia!
    I'm interested in a post from you about Asian Pop! You mentioned you liked Rain? :)

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    Replies
    1. Hey Sophia,
      I think it’s a bit preposterous how narrow-minded her mom is in the book (even if the book is supposed to be satirical. Also, there are so many positive ways to use humor, but your mom’s humor is always so dark, cynical, and negative). For example, your mom keeps saying that she fundamentally disagrees with the Western perspective that everyone is unique in their own ways. I definitely agree that this shouldn’t be mixed up with the false, “aww, everyone’s a winner” sort of confidence, but unless your mom supports communism or something, I don’t see how she doesn’t believe that everyone is unique in their own ways. Take Derek Jeter (I know you’re a Yankees fan)- he may never become a doctor or a lawyer, but he is still VERY special in his own way. So are many other people!!

      For example, I can just hear your mom’s voice saying, “Oh my gosh, people who become high school teachers are SUCH a failure and they are SUCH a disgrace to their families. How can they live with themselves?!” Of course, for people who become high school teachers even if they hate teaching just because they didn’t work hard or have credentials for anything else, your mom’s critique may hold true. But I went to an elite private high school in Boston, and I had a high school teacher who went to Princeton for both undergrad and grad school and obtained his PhD there. He had many options to teach at colleges and he tried it out, but he wasn’t as interested in research and discovered that he REALLY loved teaching younger, high school students (especially academically gifted ones), and won the Golden Apple. All the students at my high school love him and his passion for the subject and teaching are so clear every single day, even though negative people like your mom would say “So what? His job isn’t as prestigious as that of a tenured law school professor’s at Yale”.

      He’s also got many students interested in his subject and I feel like excellent teachers in high school are just as, or maybe even more, important than college professors because the material and study skills you learn from your classes earlier on are the foundation and building block for things you learn later on. And honestly, I hold genuine people like him as role models, not people who throw cocktail parties to show off and flaunt their daughter’s successes online. I am interested in political science, so the two people I may respect the most are Abraham Lincoln and FDR, and they were obviously both incredibly accomplished, but they were HUMBLE, always adhered to their moral principles, didn’t let other people’s criticisms and threats stop them from doing what they believed in, and made lots of personal sacrifices and risks for the greater good of the nation. OK, Lincoln’s assassination wasn’t the best way to end a life, but he was truly extraordinary, really lived his life to 110%, changed the course of history, and are beloved by Americans and non-Americans even today.

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